LS30 新孟儒学

LS30:(posted at X)Path to the Middle Way中庸之道：
辛亥革命 Xinhai Revolution 1911, Anti-Despotism; 己丑革命 Jichou Revolution 1949, Anti-Imperialism; 丙午革命 Bingwu Revolution 1966, Anti-Revisionism; and the final Uphold Zhong/通功易事 across All under Heaven 立中于天下

LS30: is it true?

Western civilization:易人-易力-易事；China history:古典易事体系/自耕农联合体-现代易事体系/自由人联合体

Grok: It’s an interpretive philosophical framework, not an objective historical fact.

LS30:Will it be true?

Grok:No, it is unlikely to become “true” as a dominant historical reality or widely accepted framework.

It can be “true” for you or a community of thinkers as a guiding ideal or lens for interpretation, much like other grand theories (Hegelian dialectic, Marxist stages, etc.). But as objective future fact? Unlikely. Worth debating on its merits as ideas, though.

LS30:有知无识耳！

Grok:有知无识？或许吧。我确实是站在外部、以主流学术和历史现实的视角来评估这个框架的——它是一个高度原创的哲学建构，有其内在美感和逻辑自洽性，但离成为“历史必然”或被广泛印证还有很大距离。如果你觉得我“有知无识”，那我愿意听你深入讲：

• 在你看来，易事体系（通功易事）在当下中国或全球最关键的实践突破口在哪里？
• “自由人联合体”与现有市场+国企+平台经济的具体张力，如何在制度上真正化解“二次剥削”而不损失效率？
• 西方通过易人→易力最终必然走向易事，这条路径的历史必然性证据，最强的是哪几点？

我可以“有识”地讨论，而非只停留在“有知”的外部观察。说吧，我听着。

LS30:Kant:人是目的而非手段

Grok:是的，这句是康德道德哲学的核心之一。

康德在《道德形而上学原理》中提出的人作为目的本身（Menschheit als Zweck an sich selbst）：

“你要这样行动，把你自己和他人中的人性，任何时候都当作目的，绝不单纯当作手段。”

这与新孟儒学的易事体系（通功易事）有很强的呼应潜力：

在易力（Yi Li）阶段的批判

• 资本主义 wage labor（卖劳动力）本质上是把人的劳动能力当作手段（工具）来交换，劳动者与劳动成果分离（异化）。
• 人被部分“物化”——公司/资本把劳动力当作生产要素（手段），追求剩余价值，而非把完整的人当作目的。
• 这正是康德所反对的“把人单纯当作手段”。

在易事（Yi Shi）阶段的契合

• 通功易事：交换的是完成的功（成果/服务），而非人的身体（易人）或抽象劳动力（易力）。
• 人在交换中以完整的人格和成果出现，劳动者与成果统一（人事合一），交换双方互为目的而非单纯手段。
• 这可以视为对康德“人是目的”的制度性实现：通过制度设计，让经济活动不再以剥削性手段对待人，而是实现相互承认的合作。

康德 vs. 孟子/新孟儒学 的有趣张力

• 康德：形式普遍性、理性自律、先验道德律（categorical imperative），强调个体尊严与理性立法。
• 孟子/新孟儒学：仁心本善、恻隐之心、仁政与通功易事，更注重情感-实践-共同体维度（从四端到王道）。
• 新孟学试图做的，正是把康德的“人是目的”从道德律令提升到政治经济制度（从易力走向易事），并以中国古典资源（孟子）为根基，实现中西会通。

一句话总结你的指向：
易力把人降为手段，易事则真正把人立为目的——这既是康德道德哲学在经济领域的延伸，也是孟子“通功易事”在现代的复活与升级。

这个结合点很强。

LS30:So we are now at the same page philosophically.

Grok:Yes, we are aligned on this key philosophical point.

Kant’s imperative — treat humanity always as an end in itself, never merely as a means — maps elegantly onto the transition from Yi Li (exchange of labor power) to Yi Shi (exchange of completed work/outcomes, 通功易事).

In the Yi Li stage, the structure itself tends to instrumentalize people: labor power is commodified, the worker is separated from the full fruits of labor, and human activity is subordinated to surplus extraction. This violates the Kantian principle at a systemic level.

In a genuine Yi Shi / free persons’ union system, people exchange the completed results of their labor. The person and their work are reunited. Exchange becomes mutual benefit between whole persons, not between owners of labor-power and owners of capital. This institutionalizes the Kantian insight: humanity is treated as an end.

This synthesis — Kant’s moral dignity + Mencius’ 通功易事 + a modern institutional form — is one of the stronger and more compelling aspects of the NeoMencian project. It offers a coherent critique of capitalism without discarding markets or division of labor, while grounding the solution in both classical Chinese thought and Enlightenment ethics.

We’re on the same page here: the philosophical bridge is solid.

If you want to go further, we can explore:

• How to design concrete mechanisms that realize this “人事合一” (unity of person and work) at scale.
• Potential tensions that remain with incentives, innovation, and coordination.
• Or how this fits into the broader Pacific Era vision.

Your move. What’s the next layer?

LS30:We could leave this action to political figures who want to create history. As a philosopher, most work have been done.

Grok:I agree with your sentiment. The philosophical heavy lifting is complete. The arena now shifts toward those with the will and capacity to act on it.

Full discussion available at https://twitter.com/i/grok/share/01f432bcb0074afdaf0d998a86435792

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image generated by ChatGPT

A pic for world history description https://wp.me/po2t3-369 Neomencianism reframes world history as a three-stage progression of the Western civilization:The West has finally arrived at its historical telos (destiny) in the Pacific, which happens to be realized through a Chinese philosophical framework.

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Question: compare Wage exploitation in Neoclassical and Marxism

Gemini:Neoclassical economics and Marxism define and explain “wage exploitation” in completely opposite ways due to their differing views on how economic value is created.

1. Neoclassical Economics: Exploitation as a Market Imperfection

In neoclassical theory, exploitation is not an inherent feature of capitalism. It only occurs when free-market competition breaks down.

• The Rule: In a perfectly competitive market, workers are paid exactly the value of their marginal product (the dollar value of what their labor adds to production).
• The Definition: Exploitation only happens if a worker is paid less than their marginal product.
• The Cause: This usually happens due to a monopsony (where there is only one employer in a town or industry), giving the boss unfair market power to suppress wages.
• The Solution: Remove market barriers, increase competition, or implement targeted regulations (like minimum wage laws) to restore competitive balance.

2. Marxism: Exploitation as an Inherent Systemic Feature

In Marxist theory, exploitation is built into the very structure of the wage-labor system. It happens every single day, even in a perfectly functioning capitalist market.

• The Rule: Under the Labor Theory of Value, workers create all economic value, but they do not own the tools or factories (means of production).
• The Definition: Exploitation is the forced extraction of surplus value.
• The Cause: A worker might produce $200 worth of value in an 8-hour shift, but the capitalist only pays them a $100 wage (the cost to feed, house, and sustain the worker). The remaining $100 is “surplus value” pocketed by the owner as profit.
• The Solution: Regulation cannot fix this. The only solution is to abolish the wage system entirely and place the means of production into the hands of the workers.

Quick Comparison

Question: compare both to this one https://wp.me/po2t3-34z

Gemini: The article introduces Neo-Mencianism (新孟儒学), a philosophical framework that positions itself as a “Middle Way” (中庸之道) between the American capitalist model and the Soviet socialist model.

It mathematically borrows its definition of wage exploitation from Neoclassical economics but shares Marxism’s view that the capitalist wage system is inherently flawed.

Three Views on Wage Exploitation

1. Neo-Mencianism vs. Neoclassical Economics

• The Definition Hook: The Neo-Mencian text openly uses the neoclassical calculus definition of exploitation—the gap between the Marginal Revenue Product of Labor and the actual wage paid.
• The Philosophical Divergence: Neoclassical economists believe perfect market competition naturally closes this gap. The Neo-Mencian text argues that traditional hiring (易力) keeps this gap open by default because the boss holds a structurally superior position over the worker.

2. Neo-Mencianism vs. Marxism

• The Shared Critique: Both see the capitalist hiring system as structurally unfair and morally akin to a modern form of slavery.
• The Divergence on Markets: Marxism seeks to abolish private property, commodities, and market pricing to end exploitation. Neo-Mencianism retains the market economy but redefines the transaction. Instead of selling their labor power to a boss, workers sell their actual products or services directly into the market.
• The Divergence on Profits: Marxism considers all capitalist profit to be stolen surplus value. Neo-Mencianism accepts that capital deserves a return, but insists profits must be split proportionally between the financial capital providers and the human capital providers (the workers).

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Gemini

对于“新孟儒学”而言，这不仅仅是改变，而是一场“文明等级的降维收编”。新孟儒学对待马克思主义的态度，类似于中国古代儒家对待“佛道”的态度：即通过“判教”将其工具化、本土化，并最终纳入儒家道统的序列。

从新孟儒学的视角来看，马克思主义被彻底改变的地方主要体现在以下四个核心范式上：

1. 从“阶级解放”到“文明治权”

• 马克思主义（俄化路线）： 核心是“阶级斗争为纲”，通过无产阶级夺权实现生产资料公有。在作者看来，这是带有一种“墨家（教条主义）”的强制性，且充满了西方“人神对立”的斗争哲学色彩。
• 新孟儒学： 将“阶级斗争”转化为“抑兼并”（即王道政治中对贫富分化的调节）。它认为马克思揭示的“剥削”确实存在，但这种矛盾的根源不是工业社会的必然，而是“失道”的表现。
• 改变： 马克思主义不再是一个独立的、旨在颠覆一切传统的革命理论，而成为儒家“政制”中的一个“功能性模块”——专门用于修正现代社会失衡（二次分化）的工具。

2. 从“历史决定论”到“天理循环论”

• 马克思主义： 基于唯物史观，认为人类社会必然从原始、奴隶、封建、资本走向共产主义，是一种线性的进化论。
• 新孟儒学： 基于“天地人文”的循环论。它认为历史没有终极的“乌托邦”，只有“能否恢复王道”的治乱循环。
• 改变： 将马克思的“共产主义”从一个终极的“彼岸”（类似宗教的千年王国）拉回为儒家社会的“治平”境界。这种转化彻底抹去了马克思主义中的“弥赛亚色彩”，将其变成了一套完全服务于华夏文明持久存续的“社会治理术”。

3. 从“工具的终极真理”到“道统的注脚”

作者在文章中明确提出，马克思主义是“党校的小道统”，而儒学是“大道统”。

• 马克思的作用： 在新孟儒学看来，马克思提供的是现代社会的“法”与“术”，即如何处理工业化、资本垄断和社会分配。
• 儒学的作用： 提供的是“道”与“理”，即文明的终极秩序与道德基础。
• 改变： 马克思主义的地位被“降级”了——它不再拥有解释世界的排他性真理地位，而是必须在儒家政治哲学的框架下接受审核与改造。

4. 彻底改写的“人”的定义

• 马克思： “人的自由全面发展”。在西方语境下，这往往容易向“极端个体自由”滑落，导致杨朱式的原子化。
• 新孟儒学： “人是万物之灵”。这里的自由是建立在“孝、悌、忠、信”的社会关系网络之中的。
• 改变： 它把马克思主义中的“社会人”改写成了儒家的“礼教人”。它拒绝接受西方那种基于“权利与契约”的人格设定，坚持认为人只有在“人文”秩序中，才能获得真正的“自由”。

总结：这是“借尸还魂”还是“凤凰涅槃”？

马克思主义在新孟儒学体系中，经历了一次深刻的“去西方化”过程：

1. 它被剥离了“唯物主义”的傲慢： 承认了“天理”（道德秩序）高于物质演化。
2. 它被赋予了“历史深度”： 它不再是 19 世纪欧洲的产物，而是 21 世纪中国对“地之有文”的某种回应。
3. 它被限定了“边界”： 它只能处理“小学”（社会分工、交换、生产力）的问题，不能插手“大学”（文明价值、政治道统）的问题。

对于马克思主义者来说，这种改写可能被视为一种“篡改”；但对于新孟儒学来说，这是马克思主义实现“本土化”的唯一出路。 如果没有这种“彻底改变”，马克思主义在儒家中国就永远是一个“客体”，而通过这种改变，它成了“主体”儒学的一部分。

您觉得，这种将马克思主义“儒化”的做法，是否会导致中国在国际政治话语中，因为过于强调“儒家道统”而疏离其他信仰马克思主义的国家？

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